Posts by Teary Oberon

25

Should not those who protect "Mentally Diseased" be outraged?

by Greybeard in

jw
friends

so lets say we are "mentally diseased"... where is our protection from this hate speech and mental abuse?

there are all kinds of mental institutions around the world.

edit- maybe we should all go check ourselves in saying, "jehovah, the great physician has called us "mentally diseased apostates!

Teary Oberon

@Greybeard

Don't perpetuate lies if you can help it. Your point is that no other translation uses "the exact same wording to the letter" as the NWT. But that is really a false dichotomy, because Bible translations can vary greatly in the wording. If you want similar levels of "harshness" and tone though, then there are lots of Bibles to choose from:

1 Timothy 6:4 (Common English Bible)

"They don’t understand anything but have a sick obsession with debates and arguments."

1 Timothy 6:4 (Contemporary English Version)

"...they don't really know a thing. Their minds are sick, and they like to argue over words."

1 Timothy 6:4 (Darby Translation)

"...he is puffed up, knowing nothing, but sick about questions and disputes of words,"

1 Timothy 6:4 (English Standard Version)

"He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words,"

1 Timothy 6:4 (New American Standard Bible)

"...has a [a]morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words,"

Footnote [a]: is sick about

1 Timothy 6:4 (New Century Version)

"...but is sick with a love for arguing and fighting about words."

You going to sue all of them too, along with Strong's Concordance since they also relate the term to "disease" and "ailments of the mind"??

68

Download While You Can!

by Atlantis in

credit goes to anony mous=http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/215963/1/ready-to-leak-wikileaks-style=anony mous wrote:=hi,=i have a cache of documents that are direct from the branch.

they include letters, forms, videos, booklets, instructions on how to handle everything in kingdom hall locally and rbc's financially and otherwise.=includes the branch's instructions on how to write the local incorporations so that all assets go to watchtower inc. and in case that corporation doesn't exist anymore or is no longer tax free, to the governing body (that's what it says!).

i have them for all states but only going to include ny (since that's where they are located).

Teary Oberon

"@Teary: The interpretation of JW's of those scriptures is far different (far more extremist) and very much out of context than most scholars and even the historical first century Christians."--Anony

The interpretation of those Scriptures seems perfectly in line with Paul's attitude. Paul did not tolerate people in his congregations teaching different doctrine, period. He says that repeatedly and explicitly, and even mentioned throwing several people out of the congregation because of it. You can deny those simple facts all you want, but that doesn't change reality.

"If any man teaches other doctrine and does not assent to healthful words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, nor to the teaching that accords with godly devotion, 4 he is puffed up [with pride], not understanding anything, but being mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words. From these things spring envy, strife, abusive speeches, wicked suspicions, 5 violent disputes about trifles on the part of men corrupted in mind and despoiled of the truth, thinking that godly devotion is a means of gain." (1 Tim. 6:3-5)

"Just as I encouraged you to stay in Eph′e·sus when I was about to go my way into Mac·e·do′ni·a, so I do now, that you might command certain onesnot to teach different doctrine," (1 Tim. 1:3)

"But shun empty speeches that violate what is holy; for they will advance to more and more ungodliness, 17 and their word will spread like gangrene. Hy·me·nae′us and Phi·le′tus are of that number. 18 These very [men] have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred; and they are subverting the faith of some." (2 Tim 2:16-18)

25

Should not those who protect "Mentally Diseased" be outraged?

by Greybeard in

jw
friends

so lets say we are "mentally diseased"... where is our protection from this hate speech and mental abuse?

there are all kinds of mental institutions around the world.

edit- maybe we should all go check ourselves in saying, "jehovah, the great physician has called us "mentally diseased apostates!

Teary Oberon

Again, this isn't really a WT issue, it is a translation issue and a free speech issue.

For years, many people have been wanting to censor Bible verses related to homosexuality and make it illegal to use said verses in public sermons. But that is simply what the Bible says in a proper translation, and people have a right to echo those words if they want (at least in the U.S. where there actually is free speech). The gays and lesbians have just had to put up with it and get over it.

Similarly, "mentally diseased" is an acceptable, literal equivalent translation of 1 Tim. 6:4.

Strong's entry:

Greek: νοσ έω
Transliteration: noseō

Outline of Biblical Usage:

1) to be sick
2) metaph. of any ailment of the mind
a) to be taken with such an interest in a thing as amounts to a disease, to have a morbid fondness for.

Your problem is not with the WT itself, but with the general field of translation and with the WT simply repeating what Paul himself said in similar context. But unless you do know of a way to get the Bible itself censored, then I suspect that you will just have to quit whining and get over it.

35

For Obves: It's the 29th of September, and we are still here.

by african GB Member in

it's actually 4pm right now in south africa.

is the hour of the end still on the way?.

Teary Oberon

Did Teary miss something interesting?

Explanatory links please! :(

68

Download While You Can!

by Atlantis in

credit goes to anony mous=http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/215963/1/ready-to-leak-wikileaks-style=anony mous wrote:=hi,=i have a cache of documents that are direct from the branch.

they include letters, forms, videos, booklets, instructions on how to handle everything in kingdom hall locally and rbc's financially and otherwise.=includes the branch's instructions on how to write the local incorporations so that all assets go to watchtower inc. and in case that corporation doesn't exist anymore or is no longer tax free, to the governing body (that's what it says!).

i have them for all states but only going to include ny (since that's where they are located).

Teary Oberon

"To Teary: "The guy cherry picks," ... hmmm. I guess it'd take one to know one.

Me, I'm just PLUM tired of this nonsense. I'm taking my ball and going home.

See ya'"

So long! Hope you can come back and play another day!

27

As a witness, what view of the world did you have? Heres my story

by stillstuckcruz in

so heres my story:.

i just turned 20 years old.

like many i was raised as a jw.

Teary Oberon

@ziddina Haha wow. You attack Teary for resurrecting threads simply because he likes to type, and yet here you are reviving it once again with one of the most pointless, off topic and derogatory posts yet. How many random personal attacks were in it again? Teary lost count :/

68

Download While You Can!

by Atlantis in

credit goes to anony mous=http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/215963/1/ready-to-leak-wikileaks-style=anony mous wrote:=hi,=i have a cache of documents that are direct from the branch.

they include letters, forms, videos, booklets, instructions on how to handle everything in kingdom hall locally and rbc's financially and otherwise.=includes the branch's instructions on how to write the local incorporations so that all assets go to watchtower inc. and in case that corporation doesn't exist anymore or is no longer tax free, to the governing body (that's what it says!).

i have them for all states but only going to include ny (since that's where they are located).

Teary Oberon

"@ Teary Oberon: you may enjoy this thread regarding that particular Bible verses in question:"--00DAD

What what does that thread have to offer? The guy cherry picks maybe 3 Bible translations that use as soft of language as he can find, then jumps to the broad statement:

"most other translations don't come anywhere near to using that terminology."

While Teary, on the other hand, provides the Strong's entry and the Vines entry along with many different Bible translations. The difference in scholarship and honesty is glaringly apparent.

"Anyone who teaches something different disagrees with the correct and godly teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ. Those people who disagree are proud of themselves but they don't really know a thing. Their minds are sick, and they like to argue over words. They cause jealousy, disagreements, unkind words, evil suspicions, and nasty quarrels. They have wicked minds and have missed out on the truth." -- 1 Timothy 6:3-5, Contemporary English Version

68

Download While You Can!

by Atlantis in

credit goes to anony mous=http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/215963/1/ready-to-leak-wikileaks-style=anony mous wrote:=hi,=i have a cache of documents that are direct from the branch.

they include letters, forms, videos, booklets, instructions on how to handle everything in kingdom hall locally and rbc's financially and otherwise.=includes the branch's instructions on how to write the local incorporations so that all assets go to watchtower inc. and in case that corporation doesn't exist anymore or is no longer tax free, to the governing body (that's what it says!).

i have them for all states but only going to include ny (since that's where they are located).

Teary Oberon

"Teary, thank you for the detailed Bible Lesson which still misses the point."--00DAD

You are welcome. Please also take the lessons to heart, since it does take quite a bit of time to put all that together :/

p.s., what points has Teary missed? If you will be specific, then I will try my hardest to appease you.

68

Download While You Can!

by Atlantis in

credit goes to anony mous=http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/215963/1/ready-to-leak-wikileaks-style=anony mous wrote:=hi,=i have a cache of documents that are direct from the branch.

they include letters, forms, videos, booklets, instructions on how to handle everything in kingdom hall locally and rbc's financially and otherwise.=includes the branch's instructions on how to write the local incorporations so that all assets go to watchtower inc. and in case that corporation doesn't exist anymore or is no longer tax free, to the governing body (that's what it says!).

i have them for all states but only going to include ny (since that's where they are located).

Teary Oberon

"Nice. But what, my Dear Mr. Fenton does that have to do with the charges that your publications are in breach of Britain’s religious hatred laws by referring to individuals as "mentally diseased"?" --00DAD

1. There are also some places that try to ban preachers from discussing homosexuality in their sermons as well. But the Bible doesn't change just because some politically correct dunce in office wants it to change.

2. The WT didn't refer to people as mentally diseased, the Bible did. That is a proper literal equivalent translation of the term the Bible uses in reference to apostates.

Greek: νοσ έω
Transliteration: noseō

Outline of Biblical Usage:

1) to be sick
2) metaph. of any ailment of the mind
a) to be taken with such an interest in a thing as amounts to a disease, to have a morbid fondness for.

Vines Entry:

Dote:
signifies "to be ill, to be ailing," whether in body or mind; hence, "to be taken with such a morbid interest in a thing as is tantamount to a disease, to dote," 1Ti 6:4 (marg., "sick"). The primary meaning of "dote" is to be foolish (cp. Jer 50:36, the evident meaning of noseo, in this respect, is "to be unsound."

1 Timothy 6:4 (Common English Bible)

"They don’t understand anything but have a sick obsession with debates and arguments."

1 Timothy 6:4 (Contemporary English Version)

"...they don't really know a thing. Their minds are sick, and they like to argue over words."

1 Timothy 6:4 (Darby Translation)

"...he is puffed up, knowing nothing, but sick about questions and disputes of words,"

1 Timothy 6:4 (English Standard Version)

"He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words,"

1 Timothy 6:4 (New American Standard Bible)

"...has a [a]morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words,"

Footnote [a]: is sick about

1 Timothy 6:4 (New Century Version)

"...but is sick with a love for arguing and fighting about words."

68

Download While You Can!

by Atlantis in

credit goes to anony mous=http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/215963/1/ready-to-leak-wikileaks-style=anony mous wrote:=hi,=i have a cache of documents that are direct from the branch.

they include letters, forms, videos, booklets, instructions on how to handle everything in kingdom hall locally and rbc's financially and otherwise.=includes the branch's instructions on how to write the local incorporations so that all assets go to watchtower inc. and in case that corporation doesn't exist anymore or is no longer tax free, to the governing body (that's what it says!).

i have them for all states but only going to include ny (since that's where they are located).

Teary Oberon

@00DAD

"They officially and publicly instruct their followers NOT to pursue Higher Education and yet they rely on the expertise of people that have advanced degrees in accounting, law and architectural engineering. Why is that?"

Because

1. Most of those people they actually train themselves. If you've ever been to Bethel HQ before, then you'd know that they have some rather amazing training facilities actually built in.

2. Some of them might have recieved their degrees or education before becoming Witnesses. Nothing you can really do about that, but from a practical standpoint why waste those skills?

3. The Society encourages the same thing that Jesus encouraged: seek first the Kingdom of God, and not the things of the earth that perish and that moths and rust consume.

"In reference to your comment about it being "common sense" to get rid of old policy letters to avoid confusion, again--from a practical standpoint--I agree. However, you ignore the context of the Society's long-standing practice of revising documents and then denying the past."

The letter in the documents wasn't in such a speculative and unproven context, so why should I pay attention to it? The letter was in the context of the policy on inviting and selecting speakers, not "how to secretely murder everybody in the congregation and cover it up." Mountains out of mole hills...

"BTW, you're the one that raised question of whether any of these practices are "sinister" or not. But since you opened that door, let's go through it! My comments at least were on the facts revealed by these documents, not the motives of the source. I believe these documents help to prove a pattern of hypocritical deception and duplicity of the part of the leadership of the WTBTS."

I didn't "raise" anything. That is simply speaking an observable fact. The only reason why people here are digging through these papers so fervantly is to find "dirt" that they can use to prove sinister activity on the part of an organization which they don't particularly like. If they weren't trying to find something that they could spin into sinister activity, then they wouldn't bother stealing documents and rumaging through them like this in the first place.

Unfortunately though, the "dirt finding" has been lackluster so far (even with the inevitable stretches and straw grasping). Definitely nowhere near Wikileaks level, but more on the level of common theft of ordinary documents for no good reason.